The Zone: 0 forum is designed for a small community of Sonic the Hedgehog obsessives to discuss the franchise. It accompanies Zone: 0, the comprehensive Sonic game guide.
New members should familiarise themselves with the basic aims and guidelines found in the welcome post before submitting their first discussions.
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- CommentAuthorTailsspain
- CommentTimeDec 20th 2009
I would like to comment about an issue that I am not sure everybody can agree. Whenever I play classic Sonic games I feel that Sonic 3&K is extremely easy compared to the other cartridges.
Sonic games were never "hard" at all, that´s for sure, but when I played Sonic 3/S&K I felt that the difficulty was lower than the normal. As our webmaster commented me before, If you play games a lot, you can lose your sense of "what is difficult" (regarding level of difficulty in Hydrocity), but anyway, a quick overview to the other Sonic games will provide that I am probably not wrong Let me explain.
Sonic 1 has a very well balanced level of difficulty.. You can´t increase your lives as easily as later games and many steps in pattforms require a lot of precision. Bosses like Spring Yard Zone or Labyrinth can be very very irritating the first time you play it, that´s for sure.
Sonic 2 is really easy in the first zones (with the exception of the last bit of Chemical Plant Zone act 2). Casino boss can be tough too. When you get to Oil Ocean you can feel that zones are becoming hard enough. You can increase lifes easier than in Sonic 1, but not too much.
Sonic CD, which I played later, has also a very well balance level of difficulty, very similar to Sonic 1. Few lives. Probably is the harder of the classics.
Sonic 3. Ok if you read the first chapters in Zone Zero about Sonic 3 zones you can get some curious details.
Angel island Zone. 6 lives plenty of rings, and the possibility of increasing lifes and continues through Bonus Stages (in S3/K the slot machine can increase your continues very easily) and Warp Rings. Oh, and of course a very easy zone. (compare it to Sonic 1´s Green Hill-3 lives in the entire zone- and Sonic 2´s Emerald Hill -also 3 lifes-).
Hydrocity Zone: 7 LIVES! and all the bonus stuff
etc etc
All in All, my point is clear... Sonic 3 and Sonic&K have an extraordinary low level of difficulty in comparison with the other sonic games. On the other hand we have the hacked "Sonic 3&Knuckles Master edition" with an extremely hard level of difficulty. Wouldn´t it be nice that someone made a more balanced hack of this game? -
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CommentAuthorLiQuidShade
- CommentTimeDec 20th 2009
Sonic 3 is perhaps the most consistently easy of the bunch (I don't plan on giving any levels a rating of 5 for difficulty), but I wouldn't say that Sonic & Knuckles is easy, when I think back to my early days and the lack of skill and confidence I had with them. For a second level, Flying Battery has two or three nasty bits (although not all are mandatory) where you have to skillfully hop between platforms, cylinders and bars on the underside of the ship, and those slightly frightening crushing spirals in Act 2 (particularly the bit where you have to spin dash across the top of one, in a corridor). Sandopolis Act 2 used to strike terror into my young heart for its rising sand moments and just the threat of having to get through areas before the doors ahead closed on you, and of course the really rather scary ghosts. You might be able to analyse that it isn't actually as hard as it may seem, but it is nonetheless one of the most intimidating levels I think - and that can be significant. Lava Reef is fairly consistently tough and Death Egg can be very challenging through, unlike the others, a large amount of obstacles that you can die on fairly easily just through repeated ring loss. Most are even tougher as Knuckles of course, and although I'd probably say that Scrap Brain and Wing Fortress are generally the toughest overall, I certainly don't think S&K, or even really Sonic 3, are dramatically easy by comparison.
Sonic 1 is quite challenging throughout, Sonic 2 mostly only really gets tough towards the end, and if you take Sonic 3 and S&K as one game, then I guess together they follow a similar sort of difficulty curve to Sonic 2 as well. Actually if you took out Mushroom Hill and kept Launch Base in its S3&K object layout then the curve would actually be fairly smooth.
Perhaps the increased amount of death drops in more recent games make these ones feel a little easy by comparison, in general? Sonic 3 has almost none, after all. Usually, in levels, the ring loss system means that it isn't common to die frequently from taking on too much damage in any Sonic game, so typically the things that tend to stop us most aren't really that varied; pretty much just death drops, crushing or drowning. Oh and occasionally getting caught on a large, frustrating pinball table. -
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CommentAuthorMercury
- CommentTimeDec 21st 2009 edited
Well, there are several things to consider here.
The zones are much longer, so the increased number of rings and lives is pretty much offset by the increased number of opportunities to screw up.
Zones like Launch Base (with sooo many obstacles), Sandopolis (with the ghosts and endless looping bits), Lava Reef (with the moving screen of death), and Death Egg (with all that upside down stuff) were total bugbears for me in my childhood, long and arduous.
Underwater areas tend to be more difficult, with the air limit and slow motion, and there are a total of 5 zones with water in Sonic 3.
Doomsday is the only final boss in the classic Sonics I have trouble with. For one, there's a time limit, and for another it isn't based on the jumping skills you've aquired by playing the rest of the game. The mechanic for defeating the boss is straight out of left field, and you can't apply the practice you've already gained.
To balance this out, though, there are three things:
It's much easier to get into special stages. You needn't have 50 rings, so any time you find a warp ring, you have access. Also, the special stages are much easier to beat than the previous games. It's possible to have all the Emeralds by the second zone of either game, and then you can be Super Sonic from then on, really smoothing a lot of the tricky bits out.
There are elemental shields. Lava Reef might strike fear into your heart, but it's a mewling kitten once you grab a fire shield. Hydrocity similar becomes largely unthreatening with the aquisition of a bubble shield.
Also, there is a Game Save feature (when locked with Sonic 3, that is). Getting a Game Over becomes much less of a threat at this point. Once you unlock Doomsday Zone, you can try it over and over inifinitely with no drawbacks.
I wouldn't have singled out Sonic 3 & Knuckles as the easiest, myself. There are many points, such as the infamous Carnival Night barrels, and the moving Hydrocity Act 2 wall, that stand out as real challenges from my first times through the game.
I would have concluded that Sonic CD was the easiest (apart from its special stages, but they are the only ones in any classic Sonic that are optional - you can just get all the Good Futures instead, if I recall properly). There's basically no drop-offs, the bosses don't all take 8 hits, the one underwater level has tremendous shortcuts, the final boss gives you rings, and on and on.
Of course, I do find S3&K very easy today, but that's because I've played it more times than is healthy to count. For anyone looking to increase the challenge factor, I heartily recommend this hack: S3&K: The Challenges, by ColinC10. It's an absolutely beautiful hack, and a blast to play - it took the wind out of my braggadocio when I first played it, that's for sure. I thought I could own Sonic 3 & Knuckles, but I had to think again. It's a great way to relive that almost lost experience of playing Sonic for the first time. -
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- CommentAuthorTailsspain
- CommentTimeDec 21st 2009
To LiquidShare:
Yeah, S&K saves the day in terms of difficulty. My complaint was more about Sonic 3. You are right about bottomless pits, as they are abstent in Sonic 3 (except some parts of Ice Cap) and dying because of having no rings is difficult. I still see too many lifes in the game. S&K, as a game, is very well balanced, because Flying Battery, being the second zone of the game isn´t as easy. Sonic 3 &K, with the save lots, is incredibly easy, as many parts of Sonic 3 are easier (for instance, the spring in Hydrocity, transformed in a life) with many possibilities of getting shields. I don´t see water as problem in Sonic 3, as it´s very hard to die by drowning.
To Mercury:
I forget to talk about the barrel thing! I hope Liquidshare will make a special mention to this part of Carnival Night Zone. The only reason I spent more days than usually in finishing a classic sonic game was because of the barrel (how stupid!) . So the irony was that, being S&K harder than Sonic 3, the latter gave me MORE troubles lol. I still thing that bonus stages shouldn´t be so generous and Sonic 3 or Sonic 3&K should have more Robotnik items and less lives. By the way, thank you for the link to S3&K: The Challenges!! -
- CommentAuthorsmiley225
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2009
I think that (apart from Sonic CD, which is by far the easiest game...) out of all Mega Drive games, Sonic 2 is the easiest game... The only real challenges in this one are Metropolis, Wing Fortress and Death Egg Zones, I don't think Oil Ocean is that difficult as there are lots of hidden invincibilities (even one before the boss fight...). Sonic 1 is the most difficult game and, in my opinion, Sonic 3 is somewhere in the middle:
Every zone (except Angel Island) has some very tricky and difficult objects to deal with:
In Hydrocity, water might not be the biggest problem, but there is the wall at the beginning of act 2, and those sections with the moving blocks and the spikes...
Marble Garden has its swinging spike-balls and those crushers with the spikes at the bottom, that are sometimes at very annoying places. Furthermore there is also the earthquake at the end of Act2.
In Carnival Night there are those barrels, that were already mentioned, and a problem that I always had in my childhood, was the time limit in act 2: This act took me so long to finish that I always died because of the "time over" which was really frustrating... By the way, the Act 1 boss isn't that easy either.
Ice Cap wouldn't be that difficult if it wasn't for act 2's Robotnik, which is very hard, I think... One problem is that there aren't any rings after the last checkpoint, like in Sonic 1.
Launch Base, well I think, that Sonic 3's version of the level is difficult, with those badniks with the rotating spikeballs etc. I don't think that it is harder than Metropolis Zone, for example, but in Sonic 2 there are those two levels (well, death egg is only the boss...) that are extremely difficult and the rest is extremely easy (apart from really few exceptions)... However, Sonic 3 doesn't really have a most difficult level or whatsoever, but it has 5 quite difficult levels (and they can be VERY long...). That's why I think that Sonic 2 is easier than Sonic 3... -
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CommentAuthorSpeeding Hedgehog
- CommentTimeDec 22nd 2009
I loove Sonic 3. It's a bit easy, but it was the first Genesis game I ever played. It's large levels, and big style, both in the music and art, make it a great game. In my opinion. -
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CommentAuthorTmEE
- CommentTimeDec 23rd 2009
Once you know where to go, the game becomes easy... i can beat the whole game in single sitting without a single hit, except the Doomsday boss... Sonic1 is same except I don't get hit at all. Sonic2 is inconsistent, too easy and frustrating later on, I don't like Sonic2, only on SMS. -
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- CommentAuthorTailsspain
- CommentTimeDec 25th 2009 edited
smiley225:I think that (apart from Sonic CD, which is by far the easiest game...) out of all Mega Drive games, Sonic 2 is the easiest game... The only real challenges in this one are Metropolis, Wing Fortress and Death Egg Zones, I don't think Oil Ocean is that difficult as there are lots of hidden invincibilities (even one before the boss fight...). Sonic 1 is the most difficult game and, in my opinion, Sonic 3 is somewhere in the middle:
Every zone (except Angel Island) has some very tricky and difficult objects to deal with:
In Hydrocity, water might not be the biggest problem, but there is the wall at the beginning of act 2, and those sections with the moving blocks and the spikes...
Marble Garden has its swinging spike-balls and those crushers with the spikes at the bottom, that are sometimes at very annoying places. Furthermore there is also the earthquake at the end of Act2.
In Carnival Night there are those barrels, that were already mentioned, and a problem that I always had in my childhood, was the time limit in act 2: This act took me so long to finish that I always died because of the "time over" which was really frustrating... By the way, the Act 1 boss isn't that easy either.
Ice Cap wouldn't be that difficult if it wasn't for act 2's Robotnik, which is very hard, I think... One problem is that there aren't any rings after the last checkpoint, like in Sonic 1.
Launch Base, well I think, that Sonic 3's version of the level is difficult, with those badniks with the rotating spikeballs etc. I don't think that it is harder than Metropolis Zone, for example, but in Sonic 2 there are those two levels (well, death egg is only the boss...) that are extremely difficult and the rest is extremely easy (apart from really few exceptions)... However, Sonic 3 doesn't really have a most difficult level or whatsoever, but it has 5 quite difficult levels (and they can be VERY long...). That's why I think that Sonic 2 is easier than Sonic 3...
Sonic CD is not as Easy. Metal Madness is a really hard stage (Launch Base, in my opinion, isn´t hard at all, even with all the Robotnik items it still fails to be a good final zone). Metropolis (with the star-shaped badniks) and Wing Fortress (with its precision jumps with bottomless pits below) are harder than Launch Base, which has rings everywhere, no bottomless pits and no menancing water paths...On the other hand Hydrocity, Marble Garden, Carnival Ice Cap and "Lunch" Base can be long, yeah, but by no means hard, and if someone has troubles, you can always get some shields, rings or lives in the Bonus stages, something that you couldn´t do in Sonic 2. -
- CommentAuthorsmiley225
- CommentTimeDec 29th 2009
Tailsspain:
Sonic CD is not as Easy. Metal Madness is a really hard stage (Launch Base, in my opinion, isn´t hard at all, even with all the Robotnik items it still fails to be a good final zone). Metropolis (with the star-shaped badniks) and Wing Fortress (with its precision jumps with bottomless pits below) are harder than Launch Base, which has rings everywhere, no bottomless pits and no menancing water paths...On the other hand Hydrocity, Marble Garden, Carnival Ice Cap and "Lunch" Base can be long, yeah, but by no means hard, and if someone has troubles, you can always get some shields, rings or lives in the Bonus stages, something that you couldn´t do in Sonic 2.
Well, in my opinion, Metal Madness is really not that hard... I remember that I never died when I played it the first time... And Robotnik is real joke in this zone... You can lose your rings, attack Robotnik while invulnerable, and grab some rings again...
Metropolis Zone is difficult as I've already said, but if you use the shortcuts in Wing Fortress (at the first shield up to avoid the gaps, and then the other that LiquidShade mentions at point number 4 in the guide the zone becomes fairly easy, too...
As I said before, S3 doesn't have a really hard level like Scrap Brain or Metropolis, but all the levels are not at all easy which makes this game , in my opinion, more difficult than S2, whose levels are really very easy and short... I don't think that Metropolis Zone alone makes the entire game difficult... In German we would say "Ausnahmen bestätigen die Regel"; by the way, does such a proverb exist in English, too? If I translated it word by word, it would be something like "Exceptions prove the rules"... -
- CommentAuthorTailsspain
- CommentTimeDec 30th 2009
smiley225:
Tailsspain:
Sonic CD is not as Easy. Metal Madness is a really hard stage (Launch Base, in my opinion, isn´t hard at all, even with all the Robotnik items it still fails to be a good final zone). Metropolis (with the star-shaped badniks) and Wing Fortress (with its precision jumps with bottomless pits below) are harder than Launch Base, which has rings everywhere, no bottomless pits and no menancing water paths...On the other hand Hydrocity, Marble Garden, Carnival Ice Cap and "Lunch" Base can be long, yeah, but by no means hard, and if someone has troubles, you can always get some shields, rings or lives in the Bonus stages, something that you couldn´t do in Sonic 2.
Well, in my opinion, Metal Madness is really not that hard... I remember that I never died when I played it the first time... And Robotnik is real joke in this zone... You can lose your rings, attack Robotnik while invulnerable, and grab some rings again...
Metropolis Zone is difficult as I've already said, but if you use the shortcuts in Wing Fortress (at the first shield up to avoid the gaps, and then the other that LiquidShade mentions at point number 4 in the guide the zone becomes fairly easy, too...
As I said before, S3 doesn't have a really hard level like Scrap Brain or Metropolis, but all the levels are not at all easy which makes this game , in my opinion, more difficult than S2, whose levels are really very easy and short... I don't think that Metropolis Zone alone makes the entire game difficult... In German we would say "Ausnahmen bestätigen die Regel"; by the way, does such a proverb exist in English, too? If I translated it word by word, it would be something like "Exceptions prove the rules"...
Yeah we have a similar proverb in Spain, "La excepción que confirma la regla". Anyway, it is a matter of opinion. Happy New Year! -
- CommentAuthorGOLD_sonic
- CommentTimeJan 10th 2010
I personally say that Sonic CD is the easiest sonic game I've ever played. (I've played almost all the games. Including the SegaSonic arcade title, and Sonic Pocket Adventure.) Sonic CD flat out wants you to win. Almost every challenge can be avoided by taking a higher path, and Metal Madness is too easy for a final zone. The Badniks are a bit rough, but there isn't a a single pit in the whole game, until Metal Madness act 3 (which never posed any trouble for me.)
I played sonic CD a ton in middle school on a computer with friends. We would time attack all the time, and it was a ton of fun, but the game just doesn't offer the challenge that other Sonic games have. I also thought sonic 2 on the Genesis was easy. Most stages lacked vertical level design and favor more simple left to right gameplay. I actually think that Sonic 3 and Knuckles is the hardest Genesis or classic title. (But I will say that Scrap Brain is probably the hardest zone of the Genesis titles.)
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